Saturday, July 07, 2012

Tell Me, Which Metric Scale, Odd or Even?

Hey Folks,

I have been hearing you asking for a metric Wrunt or Prybaby. Here's my problem...in order to maintain a neat and orderly stair step design in the wrench cut out area I can only do 2mm increments in size. That means you get either odd or even numbers. I know 10mm and 12mm are common sizes but there are odd ones as well that get used a lot.

Yes, I could do something weird like 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 (making that list up since I don't use metric much) or something like that but it would look like crap. I really don't want to make a compromise on the design particularly so I want to avoid irregular steps. But if there are truly frequently used sizes in there I might reconsider.    

So, give me your vote in the comments area for an odd or even scale. I do moderate the comments so just post once and I will eventually catch up with publishing them.

Not sure when a metric tool would happen but this is for research... ;)

Thanks,

Peter

64 comments:

Kiartu said...

Even. ;)

hwilh90 said...

Odd

Island Man said...

The double header was a great design. One side odd and the other side even. I would go for even, since most of my "nuts" on my 64 German car are even.

Island Man said...

Why don't you do one odd and one even?

Trent said...

What's a metric scale?

Peter Atwood said...

Could do that but then how do you tell them apart? It's always something...but yeah, maybe that's the way to go. Too bad there are several sizes in either scale that will never be used though.

sashner said...

use a different shaped cut out to tell them apart.

Jared Harden said...

Even

Ty Williams said...

Even. All Japanese and Korean cars us a progression of 6, 8, 10, 12, 14mm

Tillman said...

I like odd numbers.

Pär said...

Im afraid neither only even or only odd sizes ar optimal... For me the most important ones are: 10, 13 and 15mm, but also 7, 8 and 17. The least used is definitely 9mm.

elianminderhoud said...

Odd! preferably 13mm (M13)...

Mr. Whippy said...

On my motorcycles the common sizes are 8, 10, 12 and 13 (sorry). That covers the "metric 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" :o/

Sharp said...

I'd also say even.

If you were to do version for both sets, one way to distinguish between the two could be the number of notches (like the G4 Prybaby, or even tikis grinds like the Tiki Wrunt) along the top of the tool.

Two for even, three for odd.

I really liked the idea of "M" lanyard hole as well for the Metric Prybabies.

Sharp said...

"On my motorcycles the common sizes are 8, 10, 12 and 13 (sorry)" - Mr. Whippy

13mm for bottle opener hex cut out. Problem solved (at least, if it's a Prybaby).

That would actually be interesting. Even + most common odd, or odd + most common even.

Joe said...

I'd like to see 15mm included, for bicycle axles.

How about an odds/evens metric Funnybone?

Zuspiel said...

The most common small metric nut and bolt sizes are M4, M5, M6, and M8. That translates to 7, 8, 10, and 13 mm. The last three are a must. Very, very common.

I would love one with 8 and 10 mm somewhere near a corner so it could reach almost any nut. The larger sizes are less useful in a tool that small, IMHO.

Unsure if you'll be able to see this, but I just took a shot of my favorite EDC piece with a 8 and 10mm nuts:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fauqfx8qlsdza0b/IMG_1315.JPG

Can't stress again how much I'd like those two sizes in a place on the tool where they can reach most nuts and bolts... ;-)

Keep up the great work!

waykno said...

I probably shouldn't even post as I prefer SAE. As you well know, whatever is done, you will have those who will not like it. Nonetheless, whatever you make will sell out before the masses get to it anywho :) I suggest switching it up from time to time and have a bit of everything. I, like others, like your work. Oh, any blades down the road?

Nick said...

8 & 10... But 7 is kinda "common" too. Ugh! You're suppose to have the answers!! I don't think off the job! :)

jodj said...

Peter, I think you could make everyone happy by bringing back the Funnybone -- a G2 metric version!

Sharp said...

"How about an odds/evens metric Funnybone?" - Joe

I was gonna suggest this, too. A redesigned Funnybone with a pry tip would be interesting. Problem might be that the tool will be just a tad too long.

If 8, 10, and 13mm are a must have (I agree, as well), seems the best compromise would be a even + 13mm for the bottle opener.

Sharp said...

"I'd like to see 15mm included, for bicycle axles.

How about an odds/evens metric Funnybone?"

Off topic, but a renewed Bike Tool with thicker CPM 3V would be so awesome.

CXC said...

The only metric thing I use is hex wrenches. Don't know how you would include them in one of your tools, though.

Neil said...

Even sizes, A metric pocket tool for my dirt bike would be excellent. The most common sized are 8mm,10mm,12mm and 14mm not just for dirt bikes but for all light duty metric bolts. So please please please make an Even METRIC tool.

vegassprky said...

Looks like we need an adjustable Atwood Tool! Gary :>)

Tillman said...

Peter, will these have the M as the cap lifter?
(fingers crosses)
:)

kai said...

As someone who's frequently requested, and then purchased whenever available, metric versions of the pocket tools, I'd say that even measurements will be the most useful, however you're going to need a separate 13mm spanner as this will fit a M8 nut which is exceedingly common.

Chris Kelly said...

+1 for the 15mm bike tool

Pat said...

Joe @ 7/07/2012 5:27 PM:
"I'd like to see 15mm included, for bicycle axles."

YES PLEASE! The 15mm nuts on my bicycle axles are the top reason I'd buy a metric wrench.

Justin Akerfelds said...

I agree with everyone on the bicycle axle!

The only time I ever use a wrench is on my bikes. With that being said, a tool for my keychain with a 15mm hex wrench would be the best thing I have ever seen!

If it doesn't happen, can I ask for a commission piece?

Heywoodf said...

Here are my suggestions for your research and development. My current Prybaby (imperial) metrisized for the sake of this post has six sizes; ~ 6.5mm, 8mm, 9.5mm, 11mm, 13mm & 14.5mm. The bottle opening is ~9.5mm so in some regards is redundant in my opinion.
The following suggestion should fit in your tool plan form envelope.
I would buy and or fully pay pre-order a Prybaby consisting of 6/8/9/11/13/15mm with bottle opening at 10mm.
Thanks for asking

Rick said...

I'd have to say that 15mm is the most used wrench size for me too. I'm constantly changing flat tires on my kids bikes.

Michael Sperber said...

13mm is very common in Germany. For the rest, it's a toss up: 8, 10, 13 seems like a good compromise.

Pär said...

So, it is settled then, we all agreed on 8, 10, 13 and 15, with 7mm bottle opener! ;-)

Seriously though, this would be a most awesome size combination for european vehicles and bikes etc. Would it really look that bad? If that really is the case, then maybe odd sizes for the main wrenches: 7,9,11,13,15, and a COMBO opener with 8 and 10!

Frank Meinecke said...

Absolutele combine 10 and 13mm. mayxbe with a 3mm increment? That would a 7mm on the lower end, don't know about the usability there. Above, 15mm is next often used by me, especially for bikes.

Andy T said...

Even

george said...

even plus 13mm if possible. and maybe some way of sale that makes it easier for people living in metric countries to get a shot at the metric tool.
and a big thank you for your effort!

Paul V. said...

as long as I can get one, make it anyway you want. I've passed on too many of these to be "nice" to the foreigners :) Must gets....

Kemtitec said...

Peter, aren't you glad you asked?

Jon Fauver said...

I don't think you can win with the odd or even choice, needs to be a mix. 8,10, 15 & 17 and an 11 is also quite common

Alex said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

My thoughts, from a mechanic's perspective. Make two, 8-10-12-14 for the Asian imports and 8-10-13-15 for European ones. With such a small tool, you would have trouble getting enough torque to handle anything much bigger than a 10mm nut. So maybe 6-8-10 would do it.
And I agree with Zuspeil about the benefit of putting the wrench holes on the end, but that would be a different tool....

Penky Mouse said...

Is Metrinch possible...? Handle multiple sizes and scales with a single tool profile... I've only just discovered your work and philosophy, and I'm impressed and beguiled :)

CXC said...

The comments of other bicyclers have reminded me about the importance of 15mm for fixing flats. Currently I use the Surly brand wrench, which is flattened at 90 degrees from the bolt opening, giving a perfect surface for the palm to apply the substantial pressure needed for the task. Here's a picture:

http://harriscyclery.net/product/surly-jethro-tule-15-mm-box-wrench-bottle-opener-1151.htm

A very good solution to this one task, though I am certain Mr. A could come up with something more beautiful and possibly addressing other bicycle needs.

Blondie said...

Metric even please.

taggart_lumpy said...

Even

Or this combo would be best -
8,10,12,13,14

Tim said...

If you make both a tool for Odd and Even sizes, you could maybe use a different stamp or grind to tell them apart.

Laurie Knight said...

How about including a shaped shim to convert 12mm to 11mm etc?

Or redesigning the multi-size hole to extend on either side, odd on one side, even on the other - obviously would require a slightly larger space..

Joey said...

Design by Commitee -gotta love it! :)
Make a Ti Wrunt in any metric combo you'd like, man -we'll buy it anyways. It's a beautiful thing :)

Bill said...

I really like the double-sided, odd-even combo in something really sturdy like the Loch Nut Monster build. I'll buy! :->

EDCgear said...

AFAIK the most common ones on smaller side are: 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15...

I'd go with odd starting from 7...

Can't you go with something like universal?

One side edged and one flat?

Sharp said...

I think one way to get the in-between sizes is to use curved teeth (concave). The curvature should "catch" opposite corners of the nut and thus the tool should be able to turn the nut.

I'm not sure how this would work in a CAD model and how easy it would be cut with the thickness of material that's used.

JPimTools said...

So much metricity! All I want to know is if the metric bottle opener will work better on imported beer.

HoopleHead said...

Odd.

Because you should have an accurate measurement of a single unit of the scale you are using.

anomalous said...

most commonly used metric sizes change midway thru the scale.

8,10,12,13,14,15,17,19,21 are the spanners/sockets that get used all the time in my toolbox (for both bike and auto work)

9,11,16,18,20 just dont get used.

sometimes you use a 6 for brake caliper nipples.

if you cant have a 1mm step, then i'd lose the 13, but that would be sad.

anomalous said...

any is there any way that those of us in metric countries can reserve one of these ahead of time? we usually lose out anyway because of timezones...

Andy T said...

I second that anomalous!

Jon Fauver said...

Now that is an important question. Happy to be involved in the focus group that does the research.

mudtoy said...

doubt it :(

unit 26 said...

Yes.

N2GF said...

I would do 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, and 19. If limited to the most common, 8, 10 and 12 would get you a long ways.

Jamie Ski said...

Please make one odd and one even. This way I tell the wife I had to buy 2!

Douglas Thompson said...

8/10/12/14 would be PERFECT, given that I'm usually around Honda motorcycles.

Anonimo2 said...

I agree with Zuspeil and Alex. The most used metric wrenches in the industry, here in Europe, are 7, 8, 10 and 13.
The next step goes to 17, I see it too big to implement it to a pocket tool.
6 is also used a bit, mostly in small motor terminals.

Any other is barely used or it is used for very especific machines.